There is much talk about the possibility of reunion between the Traditional Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church. Corporate reunion seems very difficult to imagine. There are so many technicalities and difficulties. What seems more possible is for an increasing number of Anglican laypeople, priests and bishops to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.
On the other hand, the recent events in Kansas City with a continuing Anglican Church shows us one of the ways that whole groups might come into the Catholic Church. St James was a small parish in the Holy Catholic Church Anglican Rite. This is one of over 100 of the ‘continuing’ Anglican churches. These are churches that have broken away from the Anglican Communion over the years and formed their own churches. Some have only one congregation, others have a handful, still others claim hundreds.
The parish of St James in Kansas City, Missouri decided that they wanted to explore the possibility of withdrawing from the Holy Catholic Church Anglican Rite and come into full communion with the Catholic Church. In May the bishop locked them out of their buildings and seized all their assets. You can read the story here. Their rector was out of a job, out of a home, and had to turn somewhere to make a living. He returned to Texas.
Those who wanted to become Catholic turned to a local Catholic priest, Ernie Davis, who is himself a former Episcopal priest, ordained under the pastoral provision. Fr Davis who blogs here, welcomed them to St Therese parish in the Diocese of Kansas City. They have now started the Our Lady of Hope Society–with a website and a blog — a society which fosters Anglican Rite worship within the Catholic Church, and Fr Davis is planning to offer an Anglican Rite Mass within St Therese parish to accommodate them. Fr Davis says with the shrinking number of priests it is difficult to see how they would have their own parish. Instead their desire to maintain their Anglican traditions will be provided for within the mass schedule of the Catholic parish of St Therese where they have found refuge.
I hope some sort of corporate reunion with TAC works out, but I think the scenario (and others like it) from Kansas City is more likely to be what happens.
The thing is Father just because their own church is imploding is not a valid reason for them to become members of the Catholic Church and this is what bothers me. When they say they want to be Catholic but maintain their Anglican traditions does that include their anti-catholic traditions?Things such as:* rejection of the Papacy,* denial of the Church Infallibility;* Justification by Faith only;* supremacy and sufficiency of Scripture as Rule of Faith;* the triple Eucharistic tenet [viz. (a) that the Eucharist is a Communion or Sacrament, and not a Mass or Sacrifice, save in the sense of praise or commemoration; (b) the denial of Transubstantiation and worship of the Host; (c) the denial of the sacrificial office of the priesthood and the propitiatory character of the Mass];* the non-necessity of auricular Confession;* the rejection of the invocation of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints;* the rejection of Purgatory and omission of prayers for the dead;* the rejection of the doctrine of Indulgences. * the giving of Communion in both kinds;* the substitution of tables for altars; and* the abolition of monastic vows and the celibacy of the clergy. I guess my question is are they going to accept the Catholic Faith in its entirety or just become another group of Catholics in name only?
Volpius Leonius- Where have you been? The Anglican Use under the Pastoral Provision has been around for 25 years. There are 3 large parishes in Texas and several missions throughout the country. Go and learn. search for the Anglican Use Society or Our Lady of the Atonement. These sites will answer all (or a great many)of your concerns. You really need to get out more.
Volpius is not way off base. Many times, having visited Anglican Use sites, I can attest that there are concerns worth expressing. For one, I have read articles that unfortunately read like the Anglican Use is a distinct rite, i.e., “church” or branch within the Church, with the authors often clinging to ideas that deserve concern. In addition to important pastoral considerations, the English Catholic Bishops have expressed concerns like those raised by Volpius.The use of the terms “provision” and “use” should be obvious clues that the Anglican Use is not a separate rite, nor is it envisioned as something permanent within the Church. Anglican Use parishes are not like Ukrainian Greek-Catholic parishes which are parishes belonging to a distinct rite sui juris within the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.For an authoritative perspective, perhaps it is enough to cite an address (July 11, 2008 Anglican Use Conference) by His Grace the Most Reverend John J. Myers, Archbishop of Newark, Ecclesiastical Delegate of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for the Pastoral Provision. His Grace, in a supportive address rich with historical citations and much praise of the Anglican Use Liturgy, says: “The Holy See, through the work of the Pastoral Provision, recognizes that there is a legitimate historical patrimony of the Anglican Communion.” Elsewhere, His Grace also speaks about legitimate Catholic identity:“We are grateful to the Holy See that the Anglican Use liturgy is an approved Use of the Ordinary Form of the Latin Rite. However, at the same time, we must not forget that the Pastoral Provision was given for an indefinite period of time. It is important that we remember this. As Roman Catholics our obedience lies with the Holy See; it lies with the direction that the Holy Father sets for us – for this is the way Christ established His Church – upon Peter. This is a grace for us and we have an obligation to preserve unity within our Church. Catholic faithful who worship according to the Anglican Use must never see themselves as different from other Catholics or somehow privileged among other Christian Communions. We are Catholics together, obedient to the Holy Father, to those bishops in communion with him and ever faithful to Magisterial teaching.”In the same address, His Grace clarifies: “Until that unity (between the separated brethren and the Church) is achieved the Pastoral Provision serves somehow to close the gap.”http://www.anglicanuse.org/files/Archbishop-Myers.pdf
Thanks for blogging about this Fr. Dwight!Just last night I attended my first training session with Fr. Ernie to learn how to serve for the Anglican Use. We’ll just be doing the Liturgy of the Word for a couple months, while the candidates are prepared.I have met several of the Anglicans and they introduce themselves as “converts”. I’m afraid Volpius is way off base.
Volpius says, “What bothers me”.”Peter said to Jesus, ‘Lord, what shall this man do?'”Jesus said, ‘If I wish him to wait till I come, what is that to you? YOU FOLLOW ME.'”Don’t bother about them (us), Volpius. It does not affect you.
Torculus, please tell me what Anglican Use websites you have visited. And also, please — by all means — give me a list of your concerns. If there is anything of even the slightest questionable nature, I’ll see that it is removed immediately!We have been meticulous in our assertions that we are NOT a distinct rite; indeed, that’s why we are called a “Use.” And we certainly would never consider ourselves a “branch” of the Church. We left all that behind, happily, when we embraced the Catholic faith. Are you sure you haven’t been visiting Anglican sites, rather than Anglican Use sites?
MTC:”Where have you been?I am in England, I hope this will be an adequate explanation of my lack of knowledge of what is happening in Texas, it has nothing to do with how much I get out I assure you.Those sites you recommended did almost nothing to answer my concerns I am afraid.At the same time just because it may have worked ok in Texas does not mean it is going to work with this group which we are currently talking about. They are not running to the Catholic Church because they love her and believe all she teaches, if they did they would already be Catholics isn’t that so?So then it is only natural to ask why exactly are they are considering entrance into the Church? Is it simply because the Church is wiling to allow them more autonomy while giving them some semblance of legitimacy? Or do they really hold the Catholic Faith? CT:”I’m afraid Volpius is way off base.”How can I be off base when I have not made any statements? I have asked legitimate questions concerning the situation with the Traditional Anglican Communion. Citing the example of a small number of people who call themselves converts does not answer any of my questions. LBS:”Don’t bother about them (us), Volpius. It does not affect you.”You see this is what I am concerned about, this us and them mentality, this creation of division within the Church. All Catholics are one family. We are united in the body of Christ by a shared Faith, what happens to one effects the others. I am bothered very much so because I love the Church and it does effect me, that you can’t understand this only makes me worry more.
Are mass conversions really a good idea? If somone is sincere why can’t they just go the nearest Catholic church and talk to a priest like every other convert?
Are mass conversions really a good idea? If somone is sincere why can’t they just go the nearest Catholic church and talk to a priest like every other convert?
Maybe a little off-topic, but as a spanish catholic i`m rather ignorant of the intrincate tree of the “separate brothers” churches, specially in the usa. Can you recommend me any book on the matter? Our culture ends in Luther, Calvino and the fat evil Henry VIII, so i get lost when you talk about episcopalians, baptists and all that. I’m curious to know how, from the theses of Wittenberg they have more and more separated from the Holy Church Catholic.
Episcopalian church services are almost exactly like Catholic Mass, so I don’t see why they need a separate liturgy. Perhaps it’s just too much to ask the WASPy Anglophiles to mingle with all the um, ethnic people. (They can have a little bottle of Purell in their pocket for using after the handshake howdy doo of peace.)
I am grateful, in all humility, for the cautions expressed regarding the necessity to embrace the entire Catholic faith and worship. As the “man on the scene” here, I am convinced that these good folks are choosing the Catholic Church without reservation. Are there areas about which they have questions and hesitations? Yes, there are. But they are already well down the path toward becoming sincerely Catholic. I believe they will persevere, if the amount of sacrifice they are already making is an indication. If there were no Pastoral Provision, they would still become Catholic. But I am willing to take the chance, and they are willing to take the chance also, that their coming into the Catholic Church will enrich the Church with converts, vocations, whole hearted worship, and active evangelization of the lost and lapsed. I believe Our Lady and St. Therese are pleased because of the honor this brings to Christ and the Church. If it fails, then it won’t be the first time, and that also can bring glory to God. I invite you to follow our progress and perhaps hear from some of those who are entering the Church
I’m happy to find this conversation and can take a moment to address some of these weighty concerns. I am glad they have been asked, these are things that anyone converting to Roman Catholicism should be asking themselves. I am part of the group converting and personally, I find there is a lot of spiritual power in doing it this way. Most converts end up in a catechism group, anyway, and I am with a group of people who I already know and dearly love. We have been able to give each other much needed support as we wrestle with many issues the last months have wrought.V.L., for us, I think your questions further on are more pertinent than the ones asked initially. I realize that the term “Anglican” can very widely as the faith and practices, but very few of these issues are ones that require a change in practice for us. Our former church considers itself to be catholic in the universal sense and in matters of faith, there are only a few differences that we must now learn and apply.I would not and could not convert only for the Anglican Use provision and that alone. Only a fool would take this conversion lightly and we are not fools. If the worst happened, and this glorious Kansas City Anglican Use effort fails, I will be a Catholic and will still have a church. The one, true, Mother Church that has never shifted. I can’t tell you how comforting a thought that is, and how I look forward to being a part of it. A number of us have been very interested in the Anglican Use provision for years. Why? Because it IS Roman Catholic. We already had the beauty of the formal, traditional Mass. And yet, with the Anglican Use, we would have that AND be a part of Rome. I admit that when I first found the Anglican communion, over ten years ago, I thought I had the best of both worlds. I did not have to concede authority to the Pope and I would have what I thought was a valid Eucharist. So you do bring up very valid points, obviously if this was still a factor I should not now convert. Honestly, I have gone back and forth on the issue of Papal infallibility over the years. I think most formerly Protestant adult converts have, or more than likely, should have. At this point, I am more than ready to set aside the differences that caused me to turn away before. I am grateful to have the chance to convert and to become truly Catholic, once and for always. Running toward her? Yes, thank God, I am at this point. Conversion for most people is a process and you can’t necessarily judge the final decision by the road you took to get there.I don’t know what current Episcopalian services are like, but I can tell you the Novus Ordo is not very similar to the Anglican Mass that I am familiar with. What I am coming from is much closer to the Tridentine Mass, but with the liturgy in King James English. Probably the biggest obstacle that has held several of us back from conversion over the years was the lack of reverent behavior in today’s Roman Mass. The bouncing around the aisles, running up and down, high fives and what all else with the sign of peace, the prayers not said, the prayers and Communion itself not knelt for, these have been very hard to overcome. I love greeting my fellow Christians, AFTER the service. If our Anglican reserve looks like standoffishness, I apologize. Our ways differ, that does not mean our hearts do. When the service is calm and prayerful, my spirit soars. I have enough chaos in my life, I prefer it not to be in my worship. I don’t want to put anyone else’s favorite worship down, but this is something that has been literally painful for me. Many of the Anglicans I have talked to over the years had the same problem. It was difficult to walk away from such high worship to go to having the host tossed to you by the nice lady in the football jersey. And yet, I couldn’t ignore the pull toward the Mother Church. How will I address this contradiction, if the Anglican Use ceases to be? I will find the calmest, most reverent service that I can, naturally.Luanne Fliss
My husband tells me that my post is going to be read as offensive, I guess I should have gotten his critique BEFORE I posted instead of after, because that was not my intention. I’m sorry, I don’t mind the modern Mass for others, it is just typically more casual than I prefer. It also occurred to me that it might be construed that my comments were about St. Therese’s Gospel Mass and I wasn’t thinking of that at all. It was more of a composite and slight exaggeration of other Masses that my husband and I attended around Kansas City. The people of St. Therese have been so welcoming, I would hate for anyone to think that I was referring to their provisional service.
If some of you are concerned about us or the Anglican use in general,I understand.I do not know what to tell you but,put yourselfs in our place.What would you do if the doors of the church you had been attending for a lot of years was locked againstyou? Every thing that you had loved was taken away.All I ask is for some christian understanding and love,not so much to ask is it? Would Jesus keep us out of His church?