BBC Presenter Jeremy Vines speaks frankly about the present state of anti Christian feeling in the UK. The comments on this article are especially interesting to read. I like one who says, “We are sleepwalking into an atheistic state.”
This is how the sleepwalking works: First people stop believing in objective morality. They say this is because they ‘morality is complicated’ and ‘we want to be tolerant and forgiving to those who are in difficult moral situations’ and ‘we mustn’t be judgmental’. This is usually a subtext for ‘I have chosen to disobey what I know to be right, and to justify it I must complicate the matter’ and ‘I don’t want anyone to judge me and my friends for the immoral choices we’ve made.’
Once objective morality has gone, then the need to practice any specific religion soon follows. If there is no moral imperative to practice the worship of God, then it is a personal choice, and if it is a personal choice, then it doesn’t matter if I choose not to. When this attitude prevails you find the typical person saying things like, “You don’t have to go to church to be a Christian.” Or “I am spiritual but not religious” or “I believe in God, but not in established churches.”
The third step of sleepwalking is easy. Now that the person does not believe that morality or the practice or religion are necessary, then most anything goes. His next step towards atheism is that tolerance is the main (and in fact only) virtue. Everyone must simply tolerate everyone else and no one must have enemies and everyone must simply live and let live.
At this point the person and the society have sleepwalked into practical atheism. They may not proclaim their atheism aloud, but that is simply because they have not thought it through. Let a Dawkins come along and write a seemingly smart book about atheism and the poor dumb sheep swallows it hook, line and sinker–not because he has followed any line of rational argument (because the new atheists’ propaganda doesn’t offer that) but because he is simply recognizing what he has already come to believe.
Suddenly, the religious person is the oddball. No matter what religion he follows, if he believes that there is a moral law, that there is right and wrong, that there is religious dogma, if there is right belief and incorrect belief he is seen as the most horrendous person of all. He is a heretic, a scoundrel, and he will be portrayed as an intolerant bigot–the sort of religious person who starts religious wars, burns books, burns witches burns heretics, and will fly airplanes into skyscrapers. The religious man is therefore the one danger to the now atheistic society.
I do hate to appear paranoid, but the next step seems unavoidable (except by some supernatural conversion of hearts) and the next step is that these threats to society. i.e. religious people, must be neutralized, silenced and even eliminated. This will not require organized government police squads. The people themselves at every level will do the work. Whether it is through management decisions within large corporations or low level decisions in workplaces, clubs and other societal organizations, the ‘intolerant’ religious people will be eliminated.
Sharpen your weapons.
“the next step is that these threats to society. i.e. religious people, must be neutralized, silenced and even eliminated.”Um, recent news item: “D.C. cops ban pro-life messages.”
Not paranoid – realistic!
Bullets and Bibles, time to stock up on both.
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Fr Longenecker,I find this assertion interesting: “Once objective morality has gone, then the need to practice any specific religion soon follows.” Is that correct? Or in other words, can we say that religion is primarily about ethics?I might possibly be living in the dark ages in saying this, but I prefer to approach an understanding of Christianity more from an ontological (or metaphysical) perspective than from an ethical one. For instance, when I taught potential confirmands in the Lutheran Church, contrary to Luther’s Small Catechism (which begins with the Ten Commandments), I started instead with Baptism (the sacrament which gives a person new life), then proceeded to the creed (the “intellectual” confession of what this new life means to/for the baptized) and then to the Ten Commandments (how do I practically live this new life?).I guess what I am asking is: isn’t it more profitable and advantageous (and possibly faithful) to the Christian faith to begin with who we are in Christ instead of an ethical code of conduct?Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?
No. You make a valid point from the perspective of the catechist and within a context of Christian ministry and community.I was speaking more about society in general and how the decay takes place. Most people equate religion with morality, and when morality goes any form of religion, and the need for it soon follows.
When I began in banking almost 40 years ago the head of our Investment Banking division each morning gathered his staff together and began the day with a prayer!This division was responsible for investing the bank’s money. The prayer was not that they would make a ‘killing’ or rack up great profits for the bank. Rather it was that they would properly care for the bank’s assets and discharge their duties responsibly.In view of recent events in the financial sector – and pace the ACLU and Freedom from Religion crowd – can you imagine that happening today?Though, given the recent financial turmoils, I suspect there has been an increase in prayer by many who might not have thought of it in the ‘times of plenty’…
“Intolerance will NOT be tolerated!”
“First people stop believing in objective morality. They say this is because they ‘morality is complicated’ and ‘we want to be tolerant and forgiving to those who are in difficult moral situations’ and ‘we mustn’t be judgmental’.”Correct- atheists invest in moral GPS systems- more accurate, don’t degrade the further north you go, etc.At least I do. I still have objective morality.”If there is no moral imperative to practice the worship of God, then it is a personal choice, and if it is a personal choice, then it doesn’t matter if I choose not to. “I thought that belief in God was to save your soul- aka, not a moral imperitive, but a action based on personal desire not to burn in hell.”You don’t have to go to church to be a Christian.” Or “I am spiritual but not religious” or “I believe in God, but not in established churches.”You mean…PROTESTANTS?”His next step towards atheism is that tolerance is the main (and in fact only) virtue. “Er not really. To be an anti-theist you have to reject unconditional tolerance.”Everyone must simply tolerate everyone else and no one must have enemies and everyone must simply live and let live.”Peace isn’t so bad.”(because the new atheists’ propaganda doesn’t offer that) “Link to your arguments- it will save us time.”Suddenly, the religious person is the oddball. No matter what religion he follows, if he believes that there is a moral law, that there is right and wrong, that there is religious dogma, if there is right belief and incorrect belief he is seen as the most horrendous person of all. He is a heretic, a scoundrel, and he will be portrayed as an intolerant bigot–the sort of religious person who starts religious wars, burns books, burns witches burns heretics, and will fly airplanes into skyscrapers. The religious man is therefore the one danger to the now atheistic society.”Show there is a difference. But for an accident of history our Christian fanatics don’t.” i.e. religious people, must be neutralized, silenced and even eliminated.”Actually, we just intend to wait for you to age and die. Once we get the nanotech and full scale genetic engineering up, people will have to choose between church and watching their kids die of cancer. We both know which one they will choose.”Whether it is through management decisions within large corporations or low level decisions in workplaces, clubs and other societal organizations, the ‘intolerant’ religious people will be eliminated.”Don’t worry- the US has enough entrenched theocrats for both countries.”When I began in banking almost 40 years ago the head of our Investment Banking division each morning gathered his staff together and began the day with a prayer!”Wow- you didn’t hire any atheists? “Though, given the recent financial turmoils, I suspect there has been an increase in prayer by many who might not have thought of it in the ‘times of plenty’…”Religon does better when things are bad? Truer words have never been spoken.”Intolerance will NOT be tolerated!”You don’t understand- the PC fools have adopted that, but truly intolerance and hate is our greatest weapon against those who would ban things because they simply feel like it. Hate injustice. Hate the very idea that people have set science back because it is “playing God”. Hate for the simple reason our minds cannot concieve the suffering of all the strangers who have suffered because of those actionsare to small to fully concieve all the suffering these actions have inflicted.Hate burns warm so you never forget and never tolerate something because it is the easy path. Evil must always be opposed, no matter its guise, no matter how unpleasent the task.
Skinner, where did your ‘objective morality’ come from?
Where did it come from?Do you mean location?(Probably prefrontal cortex)How I justify it?(Based on desires of sentients, maximizing that and a neutral viewpoint for judging)How did I get it?(11-12, formal operations stage)Is there something I missed?
Dear Skinner, you seem like a pretty smart person, but has it occurred to you that there are some problems with a morality that you have thought up yourself?1) If you thought it up yourself, it follows that everyone else does too. The problem is that not everyone’s morality is the same. e.g. Nazis thought it was moral to kill many people in order to achieve a master race. Some people think it is moral to kill unborn children to help women in crisis pregnancies. Others think this is unacceptable.2) If everyone cooks up their own morality, then why should one person’s morality be superior than another person’s? Without an outside arbiter we must conclude that every individually determined morality is equally valid.3.) If everyone’s morality is intrinsically equal, then there is no such thing as morality because the basic concept of morality presupposes the validity of value judgments–i.e. that one thing is better than another, but if there is no outside arbiter of morality, then how can we assess whether anything is superior (or more moral) than anything else?I think you need to think these through a little more. You’re being too easy on yourself.
“1) If you thought it up yourself, it follows that everyone else does too. The problem is that not everyone’s morality is the same. e.g. Nazis thought it was moral to kill many people in order to achieve a master race.”Actually, the Nazis thought they had a master race and were killing other people so they could get more land for said race and eliminate the chance of contamination.The problem with their beliefs are multiple. The most basic was that Aryans were not in fact superior and that the classification scheme they had proposed was pseudo-science- they decided your category by skull shape!Their genocide was also insane. They targeted the Jews, the gays, the gypsies, the Slavs, anyone ledt of the KKK, the poor, the handicapped, etc. The justification for these actions were generally racial theories, antisemetism and lebensraum. The persecution of gays was a particularly telling example of their madness.”Some people think it is moral to kill unborn children to help women in crisis pregnancies. Others think this is unacceptable.”I’m proabortion myself. After all, we need to have universal morality- something that anyone can achieve, and that applies to all, not just humans.”2) If everyone cooks up their own morality, then why should one person’s morality be superior than another person’s? Without an outside arbiter we must conclude that every individually determined morality is equally valid.”No two engineers learned the same way- the worth of their learning is shown by wheter the buildings they design stand. Likewise, a persons morality is shown to be true if it works.”3.) If everyone’s morality is intrinsically equal, then there is no such thing as morality because the basic concept of morality presupposes the validity of value judgments–i.e. that one thing is better than another, but if there is no outside arbiter of morality, then how can we assess whether anything is superior (or more moral) than anything else?”They aren’t equal. The ones that are universal (which is what we are aiming for) are better. No hypocricy is the big one.
Skinner, I think there are some problems with your conclusions.You state that all moralities are not equal. But you simply assert this. Why are all moralities not equal? Who says so? You claim that the ones that ‘work’ are better. Who decides if it is ‘working’ and for ‘whom’ it is working?You see, everyone thinks what they do is ‘good’ from their own point of view. The thief who steals an old lady’s handbag to support his drug habit considers it ‘good’ because the result was ‘good’ for him. It worked. He also thinks it is ‘good’ because she was a privileged old bitch and he was disadvantaged so it was fair that he redistribute the wealth. Who’s to say he’s wrong?To use the Nazis again–you claim their morality was insane, but if they had won they would have said it ‘worked’ so it must have been the best one. The reason they did not win was not down to goodness, but power. We were stronger, so we won.Therefore, you seem to be arguing that the strongest are the best.If you know your Nietzsche you’ll recognize this as one of his ideas–which of course spawned Nazism in the first place.I don’t understand your pro abortion argument. Can you explain?Also, before you explain your pro abortion argument I challenge you to view the video posted on this blog at the post: ‘Antiabortion Video’ for Jan 20.After you view it in entirety please defend abortion. I’d be most interested to hear your views.
“You state that all moralities are not equal. But you simply assert this. Why are all moralities not equal? “Because we are going for universal moral codes. Those that can’t be universal are useless.”Who says so?”Anyone.”You claim that the ones that ‘work’ are better. Who decides if it is ‘working’ and for ‘whom’ it is working?”If it is consistant and if it is maximizing meeting individual’s desires, than it is working.”The thief who steals an old lady’s handbag to support his drug habit considers it ‘good’ because the result was ‘good’ for him. It worked. He also thinks it is ‘good’ because she was a privileged old bitch and he was disadvantaged so it was fair that he redistribute the wealth. Who’s to say he’s wrong?”He is- he is being hypocritical because he would object if someone else even poorer robbed from him.”To use the Nazis again–you claim their morality was insane, but if they had won they would have said it ‘worked’ so it must have been the best one. “There was no way they could have won. That is the problem with adopting a system that doesn’t mesh with reality.http://gateway.alternatehistory.com/essays/Sealion.html“The reason they did not win was not down to goodness, but power. We were stronger, so we won.”Why were we stronger? Because the US did not persecute intellectuals and so we got many of them. Because we have a free market and could produce more than our enemies. Because we had a liberal democracy and people were willing to die for that on some far off peace of dirt they had never heard of.”Therefore, you seem to be arguing that the strongest are the best.”Stronger societies are better for if they are not strong they get eliminated. Fortunately, the power of the current states have eliminated that threat and power is now softer and the price of defeat gentler.”If you know your Nietzsche you’ll recognize this as one of his ideas–which of course spawned Nazism in the first place.”Neitzsche didn’t spawn Nazism. You are thinking of social darwinism.”I don’t understand your pro abortion argument. Can you explain?Also, before you explain your pro abortion argument I challenge you to view the video posted on this blog at the post: ‘Antiabortion Video’ for Jan 20.After you view it in entirety please defend abortion. I’d be most interested to hear your views.”The one from the 22nd was better.As it is there a the following positions (add any I missed) on abortion:1)Anytime.2)All but 3rd trimester with health exceptions.3)Anytime, but no eugenics exceptions.4)Only rape and health threat exceptions.5)No exceptions short of “or else one dies”.Only 1 and 5 are mostly consistant. The flaw for one is that it assume that life is inherently valuble, specifically human life. However, this is not a universal moral rule. To declare human life is alone sacred is to declare that all others are not, a breath taking amount of arrogance.2 is essentially 1 in practice (as most women are smart enough to reaize they are pregnant in the first 6 months- exceptions occur when something goes wrong)3 essentially ignores that rules against cousin marriage are eugenics.4 argues that killing people to make others feel better is acceptable. When stated like that, most people realize exactly how immoral it is- using others as an ends in the most brutal way imaginable.There are other arguments usually revoling around control over your body, but others have articulated them much better.
Father,The next step is clear: the removal of ‘conscience clauses’ in a variety of legislative acts.Because of the Supreme Court’s decision in Employment Divison v. Smith, religious exceptions exist purely because of legislative largese.We have already seen conscience streamrollered by state legislation compelling pharmacists to distribute contraceptives and the Plan B 'morning after' pill.In Canada & the U.S., churches have been required to host homosexual wedding receptions if the hall is available to be rented by the public.Now FOCA threatens to require OB/GYN providers to provide abortion services.Concerned Catholics need to have their voices heard.
Ah…Master Skinner, just as I was beginning to think the game was afoot with a true intellectual. Have you not read—as has been written by intellectuals with greater stature than we—that life begins or is defined by mitosis? Is not the zygote mitotic? That means from start to finish you are dealing with a person and what’s left is the legal description of killing. Furthermore, there is an absolute morality. It is established by God; the remedy for any violations is forgiveness—but, even heretical intellectuals have to ask for it.
“The next step is clear: the removal of ‘conscience clauses’ in a variety of legislative acts.”We plan to start with the vaccine excemption and work our way up. “Ah…Master Skinner, just as I was beginning to think the game was afoot with a true intellectual.”I’m not. I don’t get paid for this.”Have you not read—as has been written by intellectuals with greater stature than we—that life begins or is defined by mitosis? Is not the zygote mitotic? “Correct.”That means from start to finish you are dealing with a person and what’s left is the legal description of killing. “Nope. If you destroy a persons thumb, it counts as assult, not murder. Being human and being alive is not the criteria- being a person IS.And personhood doesn’t begin at conception.”Furthermore, there is an absolute morality. “… I already agreed to that. Well, objective technically, but similar enough.”It is established by God; the remedy for any violations is forgiveness—but, even heretical intellectuals have to ask for it.”Than it isn’t morality- it is law. Morality is above all, for if it wasn’t it would be arbitrary.
Armageddon Thru To YouIf you’ve been wondering why it seems like the world around us is unraveling, it’s because the last days as foretold in the bible are now upon us. Just as it was 2000 years ago, many were unable to discern the signs of Jesus Christ’s first coming (Mat 16:3), as will many concerning his second coming, which will occur very soon. Yes many have proclaimed a similar sentiment many times in the past, but their errors have no bearing on today other than to lull you into spiritual apathy, and that too was prophesied to occur in the last days. If you’re not a believer in Jesus Christ because you’re an atheist, consider that the underlying impetus for your disbelief is most likely borne of pride and here’s why: When we die, if you as an atheist were right, then there is no upside or downside for anyone regarding the afterlife. We will all simply cease to exist However if we Christians were right about our belief in the afterlife, then we will be given eternal life and you as an atheist will receive eternal damnation Given the choices, the position held by an atheist is a fools bet any way you look at it because the atheist has everything to lose and nothing to gain. It is tantamount to accepting a “heads I win, tails you lose” coin toss proposition from someone. And that someone by the way is Satan (see Ephesians 6:12).The only way to explain the attitude held by an atheist is pride, pure and simple. The intellectually dishonest and/or tortured reasoning used by atheists to try and disprove the existence of God is nothing more than attempts to posture themselves as superior (a symptom of pride). And as anyone who has read their bible knows, this is precisely the character flaw that befell Lucifer, God’s formerly most high angel. (Isaiah 14:12-15). Is it any wonder then why the bible is so replete with references to pride as the cause of mankind’s downfall?Pride permeates our lives and burdens us in ways that most of us seldom recognize. Ironically, pride is the one thing that can blind someone to things even the unsighted can see. And sadly pride will blind many with an otherwise good heart, to accepting the offer of eternal salvation that Christ bought and paid for with his life. In any event, if you’re an atheist, I wish you only the best for every day of the rest of your life because for you, this life is as close to heaven as you’ll ever get, but for believers in Christ, this life is as close to hell as we’ll ever get. If you’re not a believer and follower of Jesus Christ because you are of another faith, please take the time to very carefully compare your faith to Christianity and ask yourself, why is the bible the only religious book with both hundreds of proven prophecies already fulfilled as well as those being fulfilled today? No other religion can claim anything remotely close to this fact. Many Christians who are serious students of bible prophecy are already aware of the role and significance of bible prophecy in foretelling end time events. God gave us prophecy as evidence of his divine holiness to know the begining from the end (Isa 46:10). God also believed prophecy to be so important that to those willing to read the most prophetic book in the bible, the Book of Revelation, he promised a special blessing (see Rev 1:3), and this is the only book in the bible that God gives its reader a special blessing for reading. Something to think about. Don’t risk losing Christ’s offer of eternal life by not accepting him as your savior and by thinking that the bible is nothing more than a compilation of unrelated and scattered stories about people who lived 2,000 plus years ago. If you take the time to study (not just read) the bible, you will literally be shocked to learn things you would have never imagined would be revealed in it. Did you know that like parables, God also uses particular months and days in the Jewish calendar, Jewish Feasts and customs, solar and lunar phases, celestial alignments, gematria (Hebrew numerology) early bible events and more as patterns and models to foretell future events?Consider the following interesting facts about the bible that testify to its God-inspired authorship:Did you know that in Gen 12:2, God said he would bless Israel?. How else can you explain the grossly disproportionate level of success achieved by Jewish people as a tiny minority in the world, especially after all they have gone through? And how can you explain the success achieved by the tiny nation of Israel, surrounded by enemies outnumbering them 100 to 1 and yet still they remain victorious in all their wars? Did you know that as evidence to indicate that Israel is the epicenter of the world from God’s point of view is the fact that languages to the west of Israel are written and read from left to right as if pointing to Israel, and languages from countries to the east of Israel are written and read from right to left, again as though pointing to Israel. Just a coincidence, you say? I think not.Did you know that the six days of creation and seventh day of rest in Genesis is a model for the six thousand years of this age (ending very soon), that is to be followed by a 1,000 year millennial reign by Christ (see 2 Peter 3:8)? Adam was born sometime prior to 4000 B.C., therefore our 6000 years are almost up. Did you kow that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is hidden in the meaning of the Hebrew names listed in the genealogy of the book of Genesis (Research it online)? To deny this was God-inspired, one has to instead believe that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right inside a genealogy of their venerated Torah, which is not a very plausible explanation.Did you know that solar eclipses, which the bible describes as the sun being black as sackcloth, and lunar eclipses, which the bible refers to as blood red moons, have prophetic meaning? Research it online. God showed Adam (and us) his plan for man’s redemption through the use of celestial alignments. (research Mazzaroth online)Did you know that much of the symbolism in the book of revelation refers to planetary alignments that will occur when certain events occur as prophesied? These planetary alignments also explained the birth of Christ, just search out The Bethlehem Star movie on the Internet. Did you know that the references in Eze 39:4-17 and Rev 19:17-21 in the battle of Gog/Magog and Armageddon respectively, in which birds of prey will eat the flesh of the dead in battle from two enormous wars is based on fact? The largest bird migration in the world consisting of bilions of birds (34 species of raptors and various carrion birds) from several continents converge and fly over Israel every spring and fall. Coincidence? I think not.Did you know that Hebrew numerology, also known as Gematria, and the numbers with biblical and prophetic significance are hidden in the Star of David? Google the video called “Seal of Jesus Christ”Did you know that the seven Churches mentioned at the beginning of the Book of Revelation describe the seven stages the Church will go through?There are literally hundreds of hidden messages in the bible like these that testify to the fact that the bible was God inspired, and statistically speaking, are all exponentially beyond the likelihood of any coincidence. You can find them yourselves if you only take the time to look into it. Remember Proverbs 25:2 “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings”. And finally, if you are Catholic, or one who subscribes to the emergent Church or seeker-friendly Church movement, please compare the doctrine taught, advocated or accepted by your Church, with the actual bible, notwithstanding some new-age version of the bible. And remember that although the bible is often referred to as the living bible, the word “living” was never intended to imply in any way that the bible “evolves” over time to meet, or be consistent with, the standards of man. It’s just the opposite. Well, am I getting through to you? If not, the answer might be explained in the response given by Jesus Christ in his Olivet discourse when he was asked by his disciples why he spoke the way he did (in parables, etc.) in the book of Matthew 13:10-16. What Jesus said could have easily been paraphrased more clearly as “so that the damned won’t get it”. Why did Christ respond the way he did when asked why he spoke this way? Is there something about pride (the bible says there is) that closes one’s heart to seeing or hearing the messages supernaturally hidden in bible parables, models, typologies, and similes, etc.? That should give you something to think about, but don’t take too long. Time is now very short.If it sometimes seems like there are powers at work behind the powers we know, remember what it says in Ephesians 6:12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” If you study the bible, it will become clearer.And by the way, if you are a scoffer, this too was prophesied to occur in the last days. See 2 Peter 3:3. Thank you and God Bless you! Armageddon.thru.to.you (at) gmail.com